Messiah’s Genealogy

2016-11-14_21-22-03Explanations

  1. Elisheba, the daughter of Amminadab, and the wife of Aaron, was a member of the tribe of Judah (Exodus 6:23), making all Aaronic descendants of mixed Levitical (Kohathite)–Judahite ancestry.
  2. Neri is the last descendant noted in the David–Nathan lineage (Luke 3:27-38) and appears to live at the time of the exile. During the overthrow of Jerusalem by the Babylonians, many people were killed—Jeremiah prophesied that a great number of widows and many children would die (Jeremiah 15:7-8)—and one such person who died appears to be Neri. Neri is designated as the (biological) father of Shealtiel in Luke 3:27 and yet Shealtiel is designated as the son of King Jeconiah (Coniah/Jehoiachin) born/begotten “after they [the captives] were brought to Babylon” (1 Chronicles 3:17 and Matthew 1:12)—thus posing somewhat of an interpretative dilemma. To explain the apparent discrepancy, two plausible explanations are proposed: 1) Neri died in the days of the exile, leaving his wife a widow; since King Jeconiah and Neri were near relatives/kinsmen (in the same kinship group) through the David–Solomon and David–Nathan lines, respectively, Jeconiah (while in captivity) acted as a “kinsman redeemer,” married Neri’s widow, and raised up a child (Shealtiel) for Neri, OR 2) Neri died. Jeconiah had no sons to become his legal heir—either they were killed or were made eunuchs (cf. 2 Kings 20:18)—therefore, Jeconiah adopted Shealtiel (Neri’s son) and raised him (Shealitel) as his (Jeconiah’s) legal heir—this would explain Jeremiah’s unique prophecies to King Jeconiah (Coniah/Jehoiachin) in Jeremiah 22:24-30 (see footnote #3). Both interpretations explain the “double line of the Messiah”—the two lines of descent from the two sons of King David and Bathsheba—which are brought together in the person of Shealtiel (i.e., the David–Solomon kingly line leading to King Jeconiah and the David–Nathan line leading to Neri), thereby reconciling the seemingly disparate Matthean and Lucan accounts of Yahshua’s ancestors in Matthew 1:6-12 and Luke 3:27-31.
  3. King Jeconiah (also called Coniah or Jehoiachin) reigned in Jerusalem for three month (perhaps December 598 B.C.–March 597 B.C.) before King Nebuchadnezzar took him into Babylonian captivity “in the 8th year of his [Nebuchadnezzar’s] reign” (2 Kings 24:11-12). Jeconiah’s mother (Nehusta), “wives” and “princes” were also taken into captivity at this time (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jeremiah 24:1). The sons and grandsons of King Jeconiah are listed in 1 Chronicles 3:17-18 as “Shealtiel . . . Malchiram, Pedaiah, Shenazzar, Jecamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah.” It is likely that many if not all of Jeconiah’s sons (except Shealtiel) were killed during the captivity or became eunuchs in Babylon [possibly fulfilling Isaiah’s prophecy to King Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20:18 (cf. Daniel 1:3-7)]. After the death of his near relative/kinsman (Neri), Jeconiah appears to have entered into levirate marriage with Neri’s widow and raised up a child (Shealtiel) for Neri, OR adopted Neri’s son, Shealtiel (born in captivity) (Matthew 1:12), and raised him as his (Jeconiah’s) legal heir. Either interpretation can explain and reconcile the biblical information detailed in:
    • Matthew 1:12 – “And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah [Jehoiachin/Coniah] begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel,”
    • Luke 3:27 – “ . . . the son of Joannas, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,” and
    • Jeremiah 22:30 (Jeremiah’s prophecy concerning King Jeconiah/Jehoiachin/Coniah) – “Is this man Coniah [King Jeconiah/Jehoiachin] a despised, broken idol—A vessel in which is no pleasure. Why are they cast out, he and his descendants, and cast into a land which they do not know? O earth, earth, earth, Hear the word of the Master! Thus says the Master: “‘Write this man down as [as if he were] childless, a man who shall not prosper in his days; for none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling anymore in Judah.’”
  4. Pedaiah is called the son of King Jeconiah (Coniah/Jehoiachin) in 1 Chronicles 3:17-18), but he (Pedaiah) and presumably his brothers, the “princes”—Malchiram, Shenazzar, Jecamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah—died during the Babylonian captivity (cf. 2 Kings 24:12). (1 Chronicles 3:17 should probably be translated “the sons of Jeconiah born while he was captive in Babylon” (Assir in this context means captive). Pedaiah appears to be the biological father of Zerubbabel (1 Chronicles 3:19); however, when Pedaiah died, Zerubbabel was adopted by his uncle (Shealtiel, the brother of Pedaiah)—thus explaining why most references refer to Zerubbabel as the son of Shealtiel (cf. Ezra 3:2, 8; 5:2; Nehemiah 12:1; Haggai 1:12, 14; 2:2, 23; Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27).Shealtiel was born during the Babylonian captivity (Matthew 1:12). Shealtiel appears to adopt his nephew, Zerubbabel, after Zerubbabel’s biological father Pedaiah died (cf. 1 Chronicles 3:17, 19; Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27).
  5. Shealtiel was born during the Babylonian captivity (Matthew 1:12). Shealtiel appears to adopt his nephew, Zerubbabel, after Zerubbabel’s biological father Pedaiah died (cf. 1 Chronicles 3:17, 19; Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27).
  6. The first group of exiles returned to Jerusalem with Zerubbabel in 538 B.C. Zerubbabel became the governor over the post-exilic (Yehud) community (Haggai 1:1, 14; 2:2, 21). Zerubbabel and Jeshua (Joshua) the high priest led in the rebuilding of the (Second) Temple (Zerubbabel’s Temple) (Ezra 3:2, 8; 5:2), which was completed in 516 B.C.
  7. Elizabeth was married to Zacharias the priest; they were the elderly parents of John the Baptist. The biblical narrative about them is recorded in Luke 1:5-25. Elizabeth is specifically noted to be “of the daughters of Aaron,” meaning a descendant of Aaron herself, a member of the tribe of Levi (Luke 1:5). Elizabeth and Mary were “relatives,” possibly cousins (Luke 1:36), indicating that Mary the mother of Yahshua was of Aaronic heritage also (at least by one parent). Since both Zacharias and Elizabeth were Kohathites from the tribe of Levi, the lineage of Elizabeth presents the strongest direct evidence that Mary also was of the priestly Aaron–Kohathite–Levitical line herself. This would make Yahshua and John the Baptist near relatives/(first?) cousins. John was six months older than Yahshua (Luke 1:37).
  8. Zacharias served as a priest in Herod’s Temple “in the days of Herod [the Great], the king of Judea” (Luke 1:5, 8). Zacharias was a member of the Abijah division of priests (Luke 1:5), one of the 24 divisions of high priests who had been established in the days of King David (1 Chronicles 24:10). Zacharias and Elizabeth were both “well advanced in years” when John was born (Luke 1:7, 18).
  9. Joseph—
    • Joseph was considered the earthly father and legal guardian of Yahshua (Luke 2:23, 4:22; John 1:45; 6:42). Joseph named Mary’s firstborn son “Yahshua” (Matthew 1:21, 25).
    • Joseph is called the “Son of David” (meaning a descendant of King David) (Matthew 1:20). At the time of the census taken at Yahshua’s birth, Luke stresses that Joseph “went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem [Joseph’s ancestral home] because he [Joseph] was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child” (Luke 2:4-5). Yahshua was born in Bethlehem of Judea (also called Bethlehem Ephrathah in Micah 5:2) (Matthew 2:1-8; Luke 2:4, 15; cf. Genesis 35:19; 48:7), a village ~6 miles south of Jerusalem.
    • Joseph is called the “husband of Mary” (Matthew 1:16, 18, 20). Scripture is clear that “Mary was betrothed to Joseph, [but] before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 1:18). Joseph was going to “put her away secretly” but the Angel of the Master told Joseph, “take to you Mary your wife”… “and you [Joseph] shall call His name Yahshua” (Matthew 1:18-24). Joseph “took to him [himself] his wife and did not know her [Mary] until she had brought forth her firstborn Son” (Matthew 1:25).
    • Yahshua is called “Yahshua of Nazareth, the son of Joseph” (John 1:45), “Joseph’s son” (Luke 4:22), and “Yahshua, the son of Joseph” (John 6:42).
    • Joseph was a carpenter-mason by trade (Matthew 13:55; Mark 6:3) and Yahshua is called “the carpenter’s son” (Matthew 13:55).
    • Joseph does not appear in any biblical narratives after Yahshua was 12 years old (Luke 2:41-51).
    • Joseph (an older man when he married Mary?) appears to have died between the time that Yahshua was 12 and 33 years old. Only Mary (Yahshua’s mother) is mentioned as being present at Yahshua’s death. On the stake, Yahshua handed over the (spiritual and physical) care of His mother to John, the beloved disciple, who “took her [Mary] to his own home” (John 19:26-27).
    • The elaborate genealogies of the Yahshua the Messiah, which are given in Matthew 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38 appear to present the legal and biological lineages of Joseph, who is said to be “of the house and lineage of David” (Luke 2:4) and “a Son of David” (Matthew 1:20), and not the genealogy of Mary, Yahshua’s mother.
  10. Mary—
    • Mary was the mother of Yahshua (Matthew 2:11, 13, 20; 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 2:33-34, 48, 51; John 19:26). While Mary was “betrothed to Joseph [but] before they came together” (when she was still a virgin, Cf. Isaiah 7:14), Mary conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and by the “power of the Highest” (Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35). She gave birth to Yahshua by natural birth (from the womb) (cf. Luke 1:31; 2:21-23). Yahshua was Mary’s “firstborn Son” (Matthew 1:25; Luke 2:7).
    • The context of Matthew 1:16-18, 25, Mark 3:31, and Luke 1:27 clarify that after Yahshua’s birth, Mary and Joseph began normal marital relations and had sons and daughters who became the half-brothers and half-sisters of Yahshua (i.e., His siblings).
    • The names of Mary’s parents are not identified in Scripture. However, it can be deduced from Scripture that one, or both, of Mary’s parents were from the tribe of Levi, specifically from the Kohathite (high priest) line. If only one parent (her father?) was from the line of Aaron, the other parent (her mother?) was probably from the line of Judah—analogous to the marriage of Aaron the high priest, a Levite-Kohathite, to Elisheba, a Judahite (Cf. Exodus 6:23).
    • Mary is said to be a “relative” (a kinswoman of the same family)—possibly a first cousin?—of Elizabeth, the wife of Zacharias (Luke 1:36), who were the parents of John the Baptist. Zacharias was a Kohathite priest from the tribe of Levi, and Elizabeth is specifically said to be “of the daughters of Aaron” (Luke 1:5), meaning Elizabeth was also from the Tribe of Levi. This detail gives supporting evidence that Mary herself was also a “daughter of Aaron” and from the priestly Kohathite line. No genealogy or specific details of Mary’s family heritage are given in Scripture; however, Church tradition and the apocryphal Gospel of James (145 A.D.) hold that Mary’s parents were an elderly couple named Joachim and Anne.
    • Mary had a sister (or possibly a sister-in-law?) (John 19:25) who, from the parallel Gospel accounts, appears to be Salome—the wife of Zebedee and mother of James and John the disciples (Cf. Matthew 10:2; 20:20; 27:56; Mark 15:40, 16:1). If Salome and Mary were sisters, this would make James and John the (first) cousins of Yahshua.
    • Mary the mother of Yahshua was present during the death of Yahshua (John 19:25-26).
    • Who are the various “Mary” figures during Yahshua’s ministry? At His death and death? At His resurrection from the tomb? Matthew 27:55-56 says “ . . . many women who followed Yahshua from Galilee, ministering to Him were there looking on from afar [at the stake] . . .”

John 19:25 identifies four women at the stake: Mary, the mother of Yahshua, Mary’s sister/sister-in-law (Presumably this is Salome, the wife of Zebedee, which supports the conclusion that the brothers, James and John, were the cousins of Yahshua), Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

Matthew 27:56 identifies three women who were at the stake, “looking on from afar” as: Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James and Joses [Joseph], and The mother of Zebedee’s sons (This is Salome, the mother of James and John the apostles, the wife of Zebedee).

Mark 15:40 identifies three women at the stake “looking on from afar” as: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the Less and of Joses [Joseph], and Salome.

The woman called “Mary, the mother of James and Joses [Joseph], is mentioned in Matthew 27:56 and Mark 15:40, and appears to be the same person as, “Mary, the mother of Joses [Joseph]” (Mark 15:47), and the same person as “Mary, the mother of James” (Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10). Two disciples of Yahshua are named James: one is James the son of Zebedee, the brother of John, and the other is James, the son of Alphaeus (Matthew 10:3; Mark 3:18; Luke 6:15; Acts 1:13). Given the latter fact, it is possible that “Mary, the mother of James and Joses [Joseph]” could be: 1) the wife of Alphaeus, the father of James and Matthew (Matthew is also called Levi, the son of Alphaeus), who were apostles, Cf. Matthew 9:9; 10:2-3; Mark 2:14-15; Luke 5:27; Acts 1:13), AND/OR 2) the same person as “Mary the wife of Clopas” (Cf. John 19:25) (and/or Cleopas/Cleophas), which would make Alphaeus and Clopas different names for the same person. [Note: Clopas may be a different person than Cleopas/Cleophas who was one of the two men whom Yahshua met on the road to Emmaus on the day of His resurrection (cf. Luke 24:1, 8-53, especially vs. 18)]. It is also interesting to note that Mary, the mother of Yahshua, could be called the “mother of James and Joses [Joseph]” after Yahshua’s death since Mary had four sons besides Yahshua—James, Joses/Joseph, Simon, and Judas (see footnotes 10, 11, 12) and was probably a widow at the time of Yahshua’s death.

11. Yahshua—

  • Yahshua is called “Messiah, the Son of the Blessed” (Mark 14:61), “Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:32), the “Beloved Son” of God (Matthew 3:17; 17:5; Mark 1:11; 9:7; Luke 3:22; 9:35; 2 Peter 1:17), His [God’s] “only Begotten Son” (John 1:18; 3:16; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9), and “My Beloved in whom My Soul is well-pleased” (Matthew 12:18). God is called “the Father of Our Master Yahshua Messiah” in 1 Peter 1:3.
  • Paul says Messiah is the Seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16) (quoting Genesis 22:18).
  • Yahshua is called the “Son of David” (meaning a descendant of King David) (a Messianic title) in:
    • Matthew 9:27; 12:23; 15:22; 20:30-31; 21:9, 15; 22:42-45
    • Mark 10:47-48; 12:35, 37
    • Luke 18:38-39; 20:41
    • Romans 1:3
  • Yahshua is said to have come from the “seed of David” (John 7:42), and “born of the seed of David according to the flesh” (Romans 1:3). Yahshua was given “the throne of His father David” (Luke 1:32), and is called the “Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David” (Revelation 5:5). Yahshua was of Davidic descent (Acts 2:29-30).
  • Yahshua is called “Son”, “Son of God”, “Son of the Living God”, “His Son Yahshua Messiah”, and “Son of the Most High God” in:
    • Matthew 4:3, 6; 8:29; 14:33; 16:16; 26:63; 27:40, 43, 54
    • Mark 1:1; 3:11; 5:7; 13:32; 15:39
    • Luke 1:35; 4:3, 9, 41; 8:28; 10:22; 22:70
    • John 1:34, 49; 3:17-18, 35-36; 5:19-23, 25; 6:40, 69; 8:35-36; 9:35; 10:36; 11:4, 27; 14:13; 15:23-24; 19:7; 20:31
    • Acts 8:37; 9:20; 13:33
    • Romans 1:3-4, 9; 5:10; 8:3, 29, 32
    • 1 Corinthians 1:9; 15:28
    • 2 Corinthians 1:19; 11:31
    • Galatians 1:16; 2:20; 4:4, 6
    • Ephesians 3:14; 4:13
    • Colossians 1:13
    • 1 Thessalonians 1:10
    • Hebrews 1:2, 5, 8; 4:14; 5:5, 8; 6:6; 7:3, 28; 10:29
    • 1 Peter 1:3
    • 1 John 1:3, 4, 7; 2:22-24; 3:8, 23; 4:10, 14-15; 5:5-13, 20
    • 2 John 1:3, 9
    • Revelation 2:18
  • Yahshua is called “Joseph’s son” and “the son of Joseph” (Luke 4:22; John 1:45; 6:42).
  • Yahshua refers to God most often as “My Father” or “Abba Father”, as in:
    • Matthew 10:32-33; 11:25-27; 12:50; 16:17; 18:10, 19, 35; 20:23; 24:36; 25:34; 26:39, 42, 53
    • Mark 14:36
    • Luke 2:49; 10:21; 22:29; 23:34; 24:49
    • John 5:17; 6:32, 65; 8:19, 28, 38, 49; 10:17-18, 29-30, 32, 37; 12:26; 14:7, 12, 20-21, 23, 28; 15:1, 8, 15-16, 23-24; 16:10, 15-16, 23, 23-28, 32; 17:1, 5, 11, 21, 24-25; 18:11; 20:17, 21
  • Yahshua is called “The Last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45), and “Man” (Acts 17:31), and often refers to Himself as the “Son of Man” and is called “Son of Man” in:
    • Matthew 8:20; 9:6; 10:23; 11:19; 12:8, 32, 40; 13:37, 41; 16:13, 27-28; 17:9, 12, 22; 18:11; 19:28; 20:18, 28; 24:27, 30, 37, 39, 44; 25:13, 31; 26:2, 24, 45, 64
    • Mark 2:28; 8:31, 38; 9:9, 12, 31; 10:33, 45; 13:26; 14:21, 41, 62
    • Luke 5:24; 6:5, 22; 7:34; 9:22, 26, 44, 56, 58; 11:30; 12:8, 10, 40; 17:24, 26, 30; 18:8, 31; 19:10; 21:27, 36; 22:22, 48, 69; 24:7
    • John 1:51; 3:13-14; 5:27; 6:53, 62; 8:28; 12:23, 34; 13:31
    • Acts 7:56
    • Revelation 1:13; 14:14
  • Yahshua’s hometown was Nazareth (Cf. Luke 2:39; 4:16; John 1:46), an insignificant village in the hill country of lower Galilee about halfway between the Sea of Galilee and the Mediterranean Sea. Yahshua, as the Messiah of Israel, was rejected by the people of Nazareth, by His close relatives, and by His own family (Mark 6:4). Yahshua is called “Yahshua of Nazareth, the son of Joseph” (John 1:45) and the “Nazarene”/Branch-Netzer (Matthew 2:23) (cf. Isaiah 11:1; Jeremiah 23:5; Zechariah 3:8, 6:12). Yahshua is called “Yahshua the Prophet from Nazareth of Galilee” (Matthew 21:11). He is referred to as “Yahshua of Nazareth” in:
    • Matthew 26:71
    • Mark 1:24; 10:47; 14:67; 16:6
    • Luke 4:34; 18:37; 24:19
    • John 1:45; 18:5, 7; 19:19
    • Acts 2:22; 3:6; 4:10; 6:14; 10:38; 22:8; 26:9

12. James –

James was the half-brother of Yahshua (Matthew 13:55; Mark 6:3; Galatians 1:19). James is referred to in Acts 12:17, 15:13, 21:18, 1 Corinthians 15:7, Galatians 2:9), and is called an “apostle” in Galatians 1:19, although he was not one of the twelve disciples. James and his brothers (Joses/Joseph, Judas, and Simon) were skeptical of Yahshua’s earthly ministry, and did not believe in Him (John 7:5). However, after James saw Yahshua as the risen Messiah (1 Corinthians 15:7), his life changed; James, along with Peter and John, became prominent leaders in the church in Jerusalem (Galatians 2:9) and James presided at the council in Jerusalem (Acts 15:13-21). James authored the epistle that bears his name (The Book of James). He is sometimes referred to as James the Just in the extra-biblical literature. Josephus explains in Jewish Antiquities 20.9.1 that during the procuratorship of Albinus (the successor of Festus), that Ananus the younger (the son of the elder Ananus) the high priest, unlawfully assembled a Sanhedrin of judges, and without the knowledge of Albinus, brought charges against James—“the brother of Yahshua, who was called Messiah”—accusing James of being a law-breaker. Ananus the younger ordered the stoning of James, the brother of Yahshua (62 A.D.).

James the half-brother of Yahshua is a different person than:

  • James, the father of the apostle Judas (not Judas Iscariot) (cf. Luke 6:16; Acts 1:13),
  • James the apostle, the son of Alphaeus (cf. Luke 6:16, Acts 1:13), who was the brother (or half-brother) of Matthew, who is probably the same person as “James the Less” (Mark 15:40) (cf. Matthew 27:56; Mark 16:1;
  • James the disciple (the son of Zebedee and Salome), the brother of John (cf. Matthew 4:21; 10:2; Mark 1:19, 3:17; Luke 5:10), who was killed by Herod Agrippa I (Acts 12:1-2).
  • The half-brothers of Yahshua are referenced in:
    • Matthew 12:46-50; 13:55
    • Mark 3:31; 6:3 (and possibly Mark 3:21; 15:40; 16:1)
    • Luke 8:19-20
    • John 2:12; 7:3, 5, 10
    • Acts 1:14
    • 1 Corinthians 9:5
    • Galatians 1:19
  • The (believing) wives of Yahshua’s half-brothers are referenced in 1 Corinthians 9:5.
  • The earthly family of Yahshua is referenced indirectly in Mark 3:20-21; 6:4; John 6:42.
  • Yahshua’s half-brother Joses was presumably named after his father, Joseph (Joses being the Greek translation of the Hebrew Joseph).
  • Judas (Greek) (or English “Jude”) was the half-brother of Yahshua (Matthew 13:55) and is probably the author of the epistle of Jude, who identified himself as the “brother of James” (Jude 1). (This Judas is not the same person as Judas, the son of James, who was one of the twelve disciples (Luke 6:16; Acts 1:13) and not the same person as Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, who betrayed Yahshua (Matthew 26:47; Mark 14:43-44; Luke 22:3, 48; John 12:4; 13:26; 18:2-5; Acts 1:16, 25).
  • The half-sisters of Yahshua are referenced in Matthew 13:56 and Mark 6:3.

6 comments

  1. What is your take in the virgin birth? That has been a issue of confusion for me. I’d yeshua was devinely conceived then it is hard to deny his diety, unless I am not understanding the correct context or definition. I appreciate you help in the matter.

    1. Some people make the case that according to the actual words used in the prophecy, Messiah’s birth did not necessarily have to be to a virgin, but could have just as easily been to a young (unwed) woman. As compelling as that is, I myself do lean to the belief that his birth was in fact virgin.

      That being the case, this was scarcely the only story of a miraculous birth in the Bible! Several men who were chosen for a purpose before birth were born in incredible ways. Samson… Moses… Isaac and so on.

      This is a clear indication (in my mind anyway) that Yahshua was in fact chosen for something special before he was born.

      Now… does this mean Joseph wasn’t his father? If it did, then there are a ton of contradictions in the NT. Messiah himself repeatedly called himself the “son of man.” It wasn’t until the day of his baptism that he was actually “begotten of YHWH” receiving the same rebirth experience that we (Israel) all must. This is especially important for him, because without dying and being reborn as a new creature with a new mother (Israel) and father (YHWH), there is no way that he (being a seed of Jeconiah) could be king! (Jer. 22:24-30)

      Then, the Christian question – was Yahshua actually YHWH / the Creator robed in flesh to walk stealthily among his men is truest, Henry V-ian tradition? The contradictions that this doctrine (Incarnation) creates throughout the Scriptures are far too numerous to cover. No, Yahshua was not YHWH. He was to YHWH what Joseph was to Pharaoh. He was given all the power and authority in the kingdom to rule AS Pharaoh. But alas, they were not the same man.

      1. I truly appreciate your response and am/ have been coming out of Christianity and was once a teacher In the church. So I am coming out of some dense theology. Any help on the trinity is great. Like I said I really appreciate your responses.

        1. It’s totally my pleasure if I can make things a little easier for somebody than what they were for me. And yeah – I was preaching Sunday night sermons at the age of 16, so I too had some pretty heavy shackles to break. As for understanding the trinity and it’s role in the Bible, there’s a study on here that breaks it down into pretty easy-to-swallow bites, but at the same time, it might be a bit of a hard kick to whatever is left of that die hard Christianity! That being said, feel free to give this (rather ominous sounding) study a look:

          http://vanityandlies.com/2016/11/05/mark-of-the-beast/

          To summarize, there are two different “marks” described in the Bible – a good one and a bad one. The trinity is part of one of those.

          Also, if you’d like to communicate a bit more easily, feel free to email me at my personal email address, or catch up with me on Facebook. (email – sopenco at gmail dot com / fb – shmishaul)

  2. Paul I have really been looking at the Virgin Birth and I am teetering back and forth on it. I feel like in the old testament it doesn’t lead us to look for a “Virgin” birth. The idea of a virgin birth somewhat seems silly as well. However, In the new testament it seems as though that point it one of the main points for Yeshua. As I look into this the reason it keeps coming up to me is that I have been putting the trinity to the test. One of the main doctrines is the Yeshua is God. I don’t believe that, so it breaks down him being deity. However, if he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, then the fathers is his father, and that means God conceived with a human to make Yeshua. It feels very mythical and greek mythology. I am sorry I continue to send you these questions. I really don’t know anyone that seeks Truth that still believes in Yeshua. I just am not sure I believe in him being deity, but if he was conceived by the Father, he has to be deity. sorry any help would be great, or any references to anything I can read.

    1. Hey, Travis!

      Consider this… In Christianity, we were taught that there is a singular “god” and that nothing else is anything like him whatsoever, and then there’s man. There is a man-kind, but we’ve never been allowed to entertain the notion of a god-kind. So, is there such a thing?

      YHWH is called “Elohim” which is obviously plural for Eloah. That’s not something many of us can really make sense of. Likewise, there are even more problematic passages to the Christian understanding:

      “… That we may know that you are gods. Indeed, do good or evil, that we may anxiously look about us and fear together.”

      Who are gods??? Well that’s a weird passage. And it’s one (from Isaiah) that Messiah even quoted in his own defense once!

      Well, I don’t know about you, but I’m not planning on running around telling people that I’m a god. That just seems a bit arrogant, but alas, this verse is still printed there in every copy of the Bible I own. What am I supposed to do with that?

      “Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.”

      We’re gonna be changed? How groovy! But changed into what?

      So what am I getting at here? Consider the following question:

      Can Yahshua possibly be A “god” without being THE god? Can he be the first fruit of the same resurrection which awaits us all… and have been transformed from man-kind into god-kind?

      However Messiah was conceived, he had a human mother and a human father. He was not “begotten of YHWH” until the day of his baptism. That was a rebirth – the same one that we’ve all received. But what is Yahshua TODAY? Is he still a flesh and blood man? Not by definition of the thing obviously. Men aren’t eternal. Messiah is. So… what is he now if not still man-kind?

      I propose that he is now god-kind (eloah), as we will ALL become. Not YHWH – not equal to YHWH… but the same general classification of being.

      Sounds far-fetched, right? 😉

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